Anyone who has been on a camping trip at least once in their life knows that no matter how much you fill the fire before leaving the camp, a small spark always remains in the depths of the ashes. And if a light breeze blows - and there is no need to talk about a hurricane wind-this spark can turn first into a few scarlet tongues fluttering in the wind, and then the fire-it seems to be coals and ashes-will burn so much that it will not seem enough!..

This situation is typical of modern France, which will long remember the stormy autumn of last year, when thousands of young people-children of immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East-took to the streets of French cities, smashing shop windows and setting cars on fire, in a completely Russian way, that is, senselessly and mercilessly, rebelling against disenfranchisement and unemployment under the guise of declarations of equality, fraternity and human rights. Now everything seems to be calm in the country, the bonfire has gone out, but surely somewhere in the depths there are sparks that can "ignite the flame". "Les cendres engendrent le feu", as the French say.

However, these events had a different interpretation. Many political and public figures, not to mention the media, wrote about "loose young parasites" who do not want to work, "culturally assimilate" in the host country and brazenly claim to be" special " to them. Such an attitude that would allow them to fully enjoy the benefits of civilization and "consumer society" that they could never have received in their native countries...

So what really happened last fall in France? What are the historical, socio-political and economic roots of these events? And what conclusions should be drawn

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to turn these events into "powers that be", and not only in France?

These and other questions of our correspondent are answered by a well-known expert on North African immigration in France, Doctor of Philology S. V. Prozhogina.

- First of all, who are these people who have been doing God knows what in France for almost three weeks? Where did they come from, when, where and why did they come to this country, and why are there so many of them? Directly at the time of the events, our media, and many scientists and politicians, too, gave extremely contradictory and unclear answers to these questions. The six months that have passed since then are probably enough time to clear up the picture.

- The vast majority of these people are descendants of emigrants, mainly from Algeria, to a lesser extent-from Morocco and Tunisia. The ancestors of some of them arrived 100 years ago - the first major wave of Maghreb emigration to France dates back to the very beginning of the last century. At first, the reason why people left their native places was banal: job search. The most paradoxical thing was that where they left, they also needed workers. But the vacant places in factories and agricultural enterprises were occupied by immigrants... from Europe, and not just from France. In the same Algeria, many Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, and Greeks worked... For the most part, they were more skilled than the Arabs, and local entrepreneurs were more willing to provide them with jobs. And where could the Algerians - local workers, ruined peasants-have "gone"? Of course, to France. They already knew the language of a not-too-distant country, and finding a job in a rapidly developing Western European country was not difficult. The need for labor increased dramatically with the outbreak of World War I, when hundreds of thousands of "native French" went to the front, which stimulated the emergence of a second immigration wave.

By the way, most of them did not intend to stay in France at all and dreamed of saving up some money and returning home. But they kept delaying their departure, gradually getting used to the new environment, and from 1910 the first Algerian quarters began to appear in the country, then entire districts. Gradually, a special Franco-Maghreb culture was formed. Many writers - for other reasons-emigrated to France after the Second World War and wrote about Arabs and Berbers, residents of North African villages and poor neighborhoods of Algerian, Tunisian and Moroccan cities. These are M. Dib, M. Ouari, A. Memmi, J. Amrouche, D. Schraibi and others. But the difficult life of emigrants in France was also reflected in their works. By the 80s of the last century, the already formed quite powerful layer of emigrant intelligentsia in France was replenished with the second generation of so-called French-Arabs, who were already born and raised here. Many of them have gained European and even world fame.

One often hears the opinion that North Africans themselves, on their own initiative, like locusts, went to France in clouds, settling on the outskirts of cities and towns. This, of course, is not the case. Both at the beginning of the last century, and between the two world wars, and in the 1950s and 1970s, France itself called these people, because among the local population there were few people willing to go down to the mines every day, stand at the open-hearth furnaces, sweep the streets in the morning, i.e. do "menial work".

- And what, it was only "economic" emigration? Were there any" political " dissidents among the emigrants? After all, the regimes of North African countries have never been particularly democratic, and there were probably enough dissatisfied people...

- Political emigration began in the 1950s, during the war in Algeria, and reached its peak at its end. Thousands of military personnel, entrepreneurs, representatives of the literary and artistic intelligentsia, teachers of schools and universities, as well as many ordinary people who collaborated with the French administration and, therefore, were at mortal risk in their homeland emigrated to France. The French Republic, of course, could not refuse any of them, although the number of this "wave" was very large.

These people also dreamed of returning home after the war. But after the gunfire stopped, life in the former "overseas Territories" didn't get any better. On the contrary, the rules established by the new masters turned out to be extremely harsh, far from true democracy. Many of the "refugees" were intellectuals who did not want to put up with the violation of basic freedoms, including the freedom of creativity, and the policy of total Arabization of culture... Naturally, they feared for their own lives and those of their children. The books of French-speaking Maghreb writers of that time are a vivid reflection of these feelings and moods, evidence of tragic doubts and the collapse of many hopes.

- And why did you leave Morocco and Tunisia - after all, there was no war there?

- But on the other hand, there was economic ruin - a consequence of the exodus of French workers and specialists from these countries, and, as a result, mass unemployment, the lack of any prospects... News came from these countries about the unjustified severity of the new regimes, about the brutal suppression of demonstrations and any manifestations of protest against the arbitrariness of the authorities.

When the "construction of socialism" began in Algeria, many people expressed their desire to leave the country. There was no mass exodus, but in the 1960s and 1970s, 1.5 million Maghrebins arrived in France - almost 600,000 Algerians, 500,000 Moroccans, and 200,000 Tunisians. At the same time, emigrants from many other countries of the world - Turkey, India, Vietnam, Laos, the Philippines, and the Middle East-also went to France. A total of 3.5 million people arrived in those years. Now they are already a tenth of the country's population.

- And all emigrants from many distant countries up to the present day were willingly accepted in the country?

- In recent years, perhaps, -

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reluctantly now. But there was no way out: the indigenous (or" ethnic") French stubbornly did not want to engage in "menial work". However, everything is exactly like in Moscow: look who asphalts the streets, cleans the sewers, and takes garbage to landfills-our homegrown "Moroccans" - Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Kyrgyz...

- Tell me, the French have never made any attempts to limit this flow? That is, to do something similar to what the Fatherland party is calling on us to do-introduce restrictive measures for legal emigrants and categorically prohibit illegal emigration?

- Illegal emigration is being fought everywhere, including in France. But with the legal one, it's more difficult. The fact is that the French are dominated by a "guilt complex" for the colonial past. They are reluctant, but still remember that the conquest of colonies was initially unjust, that colonial wars were accompanied by huge casualties, including among the civilian population. Under the pressure of this complex, the French not only did not prevent the flow of emigrants from former colonies, but also tried to create favorable conditions for them to obtain citizenship, helped them find jobs, create more or less decent housing conditions, raise children, etc. Therefore, there were no restrictions in this area, at least until now.

- But when 10% of the country's population is people with a different culture, different national traditions, etc., this is a direct threat to the" traditional "culture of the country and can lead to a decrease in the" power " of this culture, its moral potential. Weren't the French afraid of that?

Imagine not. They were so confident in their civilizational superiority, in the strength of their cultural tradition, that they were not at all afraid of its "erosion" by immigrants from North Africa and other countries. And in the end, they were right in many ways - the authority of France as the bearer of the highest world culture has not decreased at all recently. Although now it is impossible to ignore the presence in this powerful cultural "array" of "local" cultures of other ethnic groups living in the country.

- What was the legal status of immigrants in France? Were they considered "national minorities", as in many other countries, and did they have any special documents or even marks in standard passports?

"Yes, God forbid, what are you talking about?" France considers itself a "nation-state", and it does not recognize any "national minorities", there is not even such a word in the French lexicon. Legal immigrants, after a certain, by the way, short period of time, received French citizenship, and their children born in France received this citizenship immediately. And no one had the right to challenge a black French citizen in public, on the street, saying that you were not French! However, as we now know, they did. And more than once...

"And there was no penalty for that?" And you, who have visited this country dozens of times, have never heard such a thing? Tell me frankly-did you hear it or not?

- To be honest, I've heard, read, and watched plays and movies. But there are racists everywhere, even in the most advanced democracies. France is no exception. But in the more or less intelligent environment of any country, manifestations of racism are extremely rare and considered indecent. And, please note, the French for the most part during the October-November events tried to remain politically correct to the end, with the exception, perhaps, of the extreme right. Even as frantic teenagers burned cars in the streets, shouts of "get out to your Algeria (or Morocco)!"they were very rare. In part, perhaps, because there were a lot of "white" faces in the crowd of hooligans, whose "Frenchness" was not in doubt...

- But in our press flashed information that one of the reasons for the outrages was precisely the humiliation of emigrants on racial and religious grounds. It was even claimed that the police chased the two unfortunate teenagers who "started it all" into the transformer box just because they were "black" and "white" they probably wouldn't even pursue.

- Once again, I will say that political correctness was manifested in the following cases:-

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nom in an intelligent environment. And all sorts of lumpens or, say, philistines (there are plenty of them there!) they did not miss the opportunity to "rein in" the emigrants. All North Africans - Arabs and Berbers-since the mid-50s. this "public" is not called anything other than" biko " - "goats". And they didn't even really protest - they got used to it... (This is vividly and convincingly described in the Moroccan novel by D. Shraibi, which is called that, by the way, it is translated into Russian.) Other Maghreb writers-emigrants - R. Boujedra, T. Bendjelloun and many others also devoted their works to the topic of domestic racism.

In the 70s, the French press wrote a lot about the terrible cases when two soldiers threw an Algerian youth out of the window of a car while a train was running, or when hooligans pushed emigrants from the Seine embankment into the cold autumn water. Based on newspaper reports, immigrant writers A. Caloise, Munsi, N. Kettan and others thoroughly analyzed the behavior and attitude of hooligans and their victims, trying to get to the bottom of the motives of the crime, to the root causes of the brutal cruelty of the scum.

Recently, right-wing parties have adopted racism, and vile racist statements are being made from various platforms. Most often, they can be heard from the mouths of older French people, especially those who lived and worked in Algeria, which-let me remind you-was considered not even a colony, but an "overseas territory" of France. These people perceived their "exodus" from Algeria as a personal and national humiliation and did not forget or forgive anything. There are many of them in Le Pen's party, and they have repeatedly provoked clashes on national and racial grounds.

Of course, manifestations of racism also occur in other areas, although in a more veiled, "intellectual" form. For example, if there is a vacant place at the Sorbonne, for example, for the head of the Department of Maghreb literature, then a Maghreb scholar will never be accepted into this elite educational institution, even if he is a three-time talented specialist with a world-wide reputation. There are always thousands of reasons and excuses for this, which cannot be disputed, because in university circles there are no exact, "unconditional" criteria for the value of a specialist. They will find "their own", even if completely unknown.

- Nevertheless, you said that the native French and emigrants are formally equal in rights, and this, of course, is good. But how are these rights implemented? World history, including the history of our country, shows that "there is a problem" here. Is there such a problem in modern France?

- Unfortunately, there is. For example, among French graduates, only 3% are representatives of immigration of all its "waves". Despite equal rights, only a small proportion of young immigrants in the second and third generations receive higher education. After reaching the age of majority, they go mainly to factories and construction sites, to the urban economy, that is, they are mainly engaged in heavy low-skilled labor.

For example, French automobile factories-Renault, Peugeot, Citroen - are almost 100% staffed by immigrant workers. The same can be said for enterprises in other industries. I don't even know if the French working class actually exists today.

Recently, a book was published that provides brief biographies of Maghreb immigrants who have made successful careers in France, at least within the middle class. The author of the work Philippe Bernard with great difficulty found... there are 17 examples in total.

- Probably, in this regard, many Maghrebians seek to return to their homeland, where they have more chances to take a worthy place in business, in cultural and public life?

- Imagine, there are very few of them. The first wave of immigrants ' hopes of returning were gradually fading like a mirage. Over the years, they became more and more convinced that the independence of their native countries does not yet promise either personal well-being or spiritual freedom. The long separation from the native soil, from local traditions, also made itself felt. And their children over the years of living in France have actually become "bicultural", and without the "French half" of their "mestizo" personality, which was formed in such difficult conditions, they can no longer exist either. This was and still is a particularly big problem for writers. After all, their main readership now also lives not in the Maghreb countries, but here in France. There, in the homeland, the policy of Arabization led, firstly, to the extreme "thinning" of the cultural layer (if we take into account that almost a third of the Maghreb population is Berbers) and, secondly, to the actual disappearance of "biculturally" educated people.

- If immigrants in France are engaged in low-skilled labor, then their earnings are not very high - how do they make ends meet? And then, if they returned to their homeland, they might earn more money there - what keeps them in France?

- The economic situation in the Maghreb countries is now such that it is unlikely that people will be able to earn more there than in France. In addition, many went to this country not only for earnings - the quality of life here is immeasurably better. There are more qualified doctors, better-equipped clinics, and experienced, erudite teachers. Very high allowance for raising children. A woman who has three children, and this is not uncommon in Arab families, receives such an allowance that, in addition to the children, she can also support her husband. I have already said that any child born in France," by right of the soil " immediately receives French citizenship, which is also very expensive. There are families where two or three children are already French, and their parents have not yet expired five years

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naturalization deadline, and they are just waiting to get French citizenship.

It should also be said that for many immigrants, France is not only "daily bread", but also a country where the main slogan of life is "Freedom. Equality. Brotherhood", which also means a lot for a modern person.

- Tell me, why did the current generation rebel, and not the past ones? Modern rioters are "Arab Frenchmen" already in the third generation. Why were the two previous ones silent - after all, there were no less socio-economic problems before? How did fathers and grandfathers react to the aggression of their sons and grandchildren?

- They reacted normally-they tried to besiege and bring their children and grandchildren to reason. But they did not listen to the exhortations and appeals to "calm down". Perhaps because the "old people" at one time faced the task of surviving in an unfamiliar and, in fact, alien world for them. They compared the living conditions at home and in France and agreed to "endure" the racism, humiliation, and slum life - all the same, they were better off in this European country than in their North African homeland... That is why older generations of immigrants are relatively "quiet". It's always harder for the second generation. They are already undergoing a crisis of identification, asking themselves: are we Arabs or French?.. Young Arabs living in France have nothing to compare their lives with. More precisely, of course, they compare it with the life of young French people from the middle class, and this comparison is not in favor of ethnic Maghrebians...

- You just mentioned the appeal of the French Revolution's motto for immigrants - "Freedom. Equality. The brotherhood." But it seems that in practice, especially for immigrant youth, this motto is not so attractive, because it is out of touch with life - isn't it?

"Not exactly. Immigrants proclaimed their "amendment" to this slogan: "The right to equality with the right to difference!" Agree, the difference is significant. Young Arabs living in France go to the same schools and work in the same places where the "native" French work, dance in the same discos (if they are still allowed there), applaud the same rock singers (who today often, just like football players, are no longer "purebred " French). But when they return home, they see their parents spreading out mats and praying, facing the direction of Mecca. Girls and women wear long dresses at home, parents do not allow their daughters to use cosmetics, their marriages are arranged "by the will of the father", according to tradition, women still eat lunch separately from men, and when going out, they increasingly cover their heads with a headscarf-hijab. And no one should be particularly concerned about this, no one should blame them for it, unless, of course, the republican laws and norms of social behavior, that is, the laws and norms of the "host society", are violated. But with their lifestyle, young Arabs seem to be saying to their French peers: we are just like you, but not quite like you. And you have to admit it and take it into account. Many parents of" French Arabs " want their children to go to primary religious schools, learn how to read the Koran, and attend mosques. What's wrong with that? Yes, nothing, except for the emerging trend of a certain "cultural separatism". Apparently, it is necessary to respect the rules and norms of behavior that are of lasting value for a significant part of the country's population. The French do not like to emphasize any particularly noticeable features of religious or ethnic affiliation.

- Why is it that in England, a country located just across a narrow strait from France, there are quite obvious "Hindu", "Pakistani", and "Chinese" communities, while in France there are no such communitarian formations? Perhaps the creation of such national entities is the key to solving the problem, or at least to reducing its severity?

- Imagine, France does not want this. Nor the native French, who believe that the Republican principle of "equality and fraternity" of peoples, which they cherish very much, will be violated. Neither are immigrants, a significant part of whom still strive to somehow integrate into French society, joining its cultural and civilizational achievements. Most French people are not even afraid of the fact that in 4 or 5 generations they will actually become a nation of the color of "coffee with milk" due to the mixing of its European and African parts - they are still confident in the strength and power of their centuries-old civilization and cultural specificity. And it seems that many people regard this phenomenon as as inevitable as it is harmless from the point of view of preserving the French state as a nation-state, and not as a "melting pot" like America. The number of mixed marriages is growing every year, French women are willing to marry Arabs. There are some very happy and successful mixed families, including those who work in theater, cinema, and show business, and the French press writes a lot about them. In short, there are objective and subjective tendencies towards the convergence and mixing of ethnic groups, peoples, races and the formation of a multi-ethnic and multi-confessional community in France in all senses.

- How are the "sharp corners" of cultural contradictions erased?

- The parties are trying to make compromises. Many women and girls from Maghrebian immigration serve as housekeepers and governesses in French families and do not go to work in a hijab. Others work as cashiers in supermarkets and also do without the obligatory headscarves for Arab women. But there are still a lot of women in "Muslim" clothing on the streets, and the French, who at first reacted sharply to this (it may be recalled that in 1989 there was a sharp public discussion on this issue), now do not attach much importance to this. (Unfortunately, this is not the case here. Recently, a Russian girl who converted to Islam appeared on Moscow television. She said that she tried to walk along the streets of Moscow in a headscarf and a long black dress.-

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but after everyone started shying away from her in the subway, and the police began to check her documents almost every 3 to 5 minutes, she was forced to return to European clothes.)

- You just said that the French reject "communitarian" models of building their society. But maybe this is the reason why representatives of other faiths are more aggressive here than, for example, in England?

- Let's not forget about the" historical memory " of the people. British colonialism was still somewhat more "soft" than French. England did not withdraw from any of its colonies through such brutal and bloody wars as France did from Algeria and Vietnam. I mentioned earlier that thousands of French people consider leaving Algeria a national disgrace. But even among the native Algerians living in France, there are many who cannot forgive the brutalities of the French administration during the colonial period. And how the French behaved in Indochina! In addition, there is an opinion that the American aggression against Vietnam, which cost hundreds of thousands of lives, was also largely provoked by the untimely and poorly planned withdrawal of the French from this country. That is why it cannot be denied that among the rebellious youth there is some part of those who simply avenge the humiliations and sacrifices of their ancestors.

In addition, the British are definitely "more democratic"than the French in terms of "admitting" immigrants to all areas, including scientific research and teaching. If in all French universities, research institutes and laboratories Maghrebians-teachers and researchers - can be literally counted on the fingers, then in England scientists and teachers, for example, from India, Pakistan, China, thousands, and many of them, armed with British scientific baggage, quietly leave for work in the United States and other countries, where they are readily accepted. And this circumstance - the low availability of immigrants to serious humanitarian activities-also plays a role in various kinds of unrest in France.

- Are there any chances that one day Arabic will be recognized as the second official language in France?

- In the foreseeable future, it is unlikely. As early as 1789, more than 200 years ago, the French Convention declared: "Jews will be given full rights as individuals, and never as a nation." And although the Jewish community in France is impressive in size, it is far from being completely equal to the French Catholics, not to mention the numerous and well-known manifestations of anti-Semitism. There are many synagogues in France, Jews have lived in the country since time immemorial, but they have never even hinted that Yiddish or Hebrew played any significant cultural role in the country. What can we say about Arabic, which was loudly heard on the streets of French cities only some half a century ago? Ethnic Arabs should not expect any "special treatment" for this language yet. But we should also not forget that" unofficially", judging by the number of believers, Islam now occupies the second place among the religions professed in the country.

- How many illegal immigrants were involved in the events of autumn 2005, and how active were they? How acute is the problem of illegal immigration for the country?

- This problem is acute literally everywhere, and France is by no means an exception. No one knows the exact number of illegal immigrants in this country (this figure will not be called either in Spain or in Italy). However, it is believed that their share is about 15% of the number of legal immigrants - this is quite a lot. Some of them must have been among the rioters on the streets. But most probably preferred to "keep a low profile." Because such "activity" increased the chances of communicating with the police, which illegal immigrants are unlikely to be interested in.

But in general, they are treated relatively liberally in France. The police often overlook the fact that people without passports work as garbage collectors, street cleaners, etc. The situation in the labor market is such that there are many jobs where it is not that a native Frenchman - a legal immigrant-cannot be dragged. So we have to put up with the presence of tens of thousands of foreigners living and working in the country without a permit. But they make a relatively small "contribution" to crime - they are, as they say, not up to it...

- Nevertheless, probably, not only historical memory or the presence of "illegal immigrants" of immigration were the main reasons for the"autumn explosion". But then - what exactly? What was the "main detonator"?

- I think it's a heightened sense of social inequality, a certain marginality. Internal protest matured long ago. And now the abscess finally broke. And, please note, over the past 50 years - for the second time in such a "youth" form.

In fact, in 1968, the French youth revolted precisely against the " dominance of the bourgeois order." There were relatively few Arab immigrants at that time, and they were not yet ready for social protest. But there were many young Frenchmen who were born and raised on the outskirts of big cities. Dull, monotonous, somewhat similar to Moscow's residential areas... Life on the outskirts, in the "zone", as they say here, was evaluated by society as a symbol of failure, a sign of failure. A young person living in the 14th or, even worse, 8th or 19th arrondissements of Paris was less likely to enter the Sorbonne or Ecole Polytechnique than a resident of the 15th or 17th arrondissements or the first arrondissement. What can we say about people from the outskirts or suburbs?

Young people were brought to the streets by a heightened sense of social inequality. And if cars were burned less then, it was only because compared to 2005, there were not so many of them. By the way, "graffiti" and threatening inscriptions made in indelible colors at that time can still be seen on the iron blinds of some storefronts.

Over the past five decades, French families have moved out of their residential areas closer to the city center or into the city center.

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country mansions. And the "Khrushchevki in French" was occupied mainly by Maghreb residents and their large families. At the same time, they experience essentially the same thing as young French people almost 40 years ago - a severe inferiority complex, a burning sense of social inequality, and most importantly, a complete lack of opportunities to change the "status quo" and break out at least into the middle class. Of course, you can only dream of becoming a scientist, a big businessman, or a TV star... The death of two boys who escaped from the police in a transformer box was only an excuse for an unorganized, but mass action. After all, even this tragedy was perceived as a manifestation of social injustice: for some reason, everyone was sure that the" white " police officers would not be so fervently chasing. Moreover, in the eyes of the French philistine, an Arab is necessarily a drug addict, a bully,or both.

"But why burn cars?"

- And this is to make it more noticeable. Smoke and fumes from the outskirts, indeed, they say, were visible and felt in quite prosperous neighborhoods. So they probably heard the "demonstrators" there.

"There are hundreds, if not thousands, of strikes every year in France. But in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't come to pogroms. Why did it get here?

- It is true that the French often resort to strikes in order to defend their rights. I remember once when the staff of maternity hospitals in the heart of Paris went on strike-the midwives refused to accept women in labor. I myself suffered from strikes by railway workers and air traffic controllers, which caused me to be late for scientific symposia and not be able to fly home in time. Research groups, orchestra musicians, and theater performers often go on strike... But these are mostly "local" actions on relatively private occasions: strikers are seeking higher wages, better working conditions, and revision of collective agreements with entrepreneurs. Here, the authorities faced a truly global task: not only to punish those responsible for the deaths of two teenagers, but also to create conditions so that this does not happen again, and to do this, to solve a whole range of social problems, among which the main one is to ensure equal opportunities in education, work, and living conditions, and to destroy real immigrant "ghettos". The scale of the social protest corresponded to the scale of the questions put to the authorities.

- Can this happen in the future? How big are the chances of a repeat of the stormy autumn of 2005?

- The chances of a repeat of these turbulent events, in my opinion, are high. They showed how favorable the material for extremist organizations is today's youth. And not only the Arab one - there must have been white young Frenchmen among the rioters, who also set fire to their parents ' cars with ecstatic joy, taking revenge for everything and everyone. A new protest can arise on absolutely any occasion - in defense of the rights of women, animals, against globalism, climate warming, transportation and storage of nuclear waste... Young people have long felt their power and in an attempt to radically "rebuild" their lives, despite past failures, they will not miss the chance to demonstrate this power again.

Even the fact that French culture remains dominant in the republic, even though 10% of the country's population is native to other cultures, is enough to cause another outbreak of violence. It is no coincidence that the country is increasingly making proposals for holding exhibitions of Islamic art, organizing Islamic theater and cinema (by the way, which is rapidly gaining strength in the Muslim world and winning numerous prizes at prestigious film festivals). This may help to "let off steam" and create an atmosphere of peace and harmony in a complex multi-confessional environment.

- And what else should be done to exclude the possibility of a repeat of the" hot French autumn " of 2005?

- We must try to somehow resolve the issues raised at that time, or at least promise the "French Arabs" that they will be resolved. The head of state, the Prime Minister, and the Interior Minister have all promised this. There can be a lot of suggestions in this regard. But first of all, these acute problems should be solved by the French themselves. The country's prime Minister, speaking in the National Assembly, promised to think about the possibility of changing the policy of integrating immigrants into French society - it is important that this does not remain a good wish...

Many years ago, the French built their own Temple of " Freedom, Equality and Fraternity." But it seems that they somehow forgot that behind its beautiful facade there must be real guarantees for those who entered it; otherwise, three beautiful words will remain only words... The gap between word and deed has led to the events we are talking about today. Until this gap is bridged, there is still a risk of a repeat of the events of autumn 2005.

Many people are concerned that during these events, the extreme right and "nationalists", for example, the same Le Pen, have once again raised their heads. Their statements about the need to" deal "with foreigners who have settled in France, and evict all" unreliable " ones, excited the intelligentsia, as, indeed, all sensible French people. The longing for the so-called "order" is not only felt by "people of French nationality" - in the last presidential election, many "French Arabs" also voted for Le Pen, no matter how surprising it may seem. Now they probably thought about it - after all, the coming to power of the lepenovites threatens them - completely law-abiding and unconditionally accepting the French rules of the hostel. This is now understood by many in France.

- Do you think that the Russian version of the French events is possible?

"I don't think so. In our cities, first of all, fortunately, there are no Armenian, Chechen, Tajik, or Moldovan border regions.

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"ghettos" - people from former Soviet republics, including illegal immigrants, are dispersed throughout the city square, and it is not easy for them to unite and organize themselves. Secondly, none of the national diasporas consists of "second-class" people. On the contrary, entire business sectors are run by "Easterners" who are extremely interested in social stability. Some concern is caused by the actions of" our "fascist elements, the same skinheads, but so far they are isolated, sporadic and have not led and, most likely, will not lead to a war between national" clans", including the Russian one.

- It turns out, in general, there is little chance that the events in the French scenario will be repeated anywhere...

- Unfortunately, they have already been repeated, although on a smaller scale, in Germany, Denmark, and Holland. In Australia, real street battles unfolded between representatives of the" Islamic", mainly" Lebanese "diaspora and" white " Australians. A huge negative response in the Islamic world was caused by the publication, first in the Danish press, and then in newspapers of other European countries, of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad - a completely insignificant reason by European, but by no means by Islamic standards.

Today, it is difficult to predict whether this confrontation, which, alas, is gaining a global character, will end at all. But at least one conclusion I have made for myself: we need to study in depth and thoroughly the origins, essence, real causes and mechanisms that trigger such phenomena in order to be ready to overcome conflict situations and solve the inevitable complex political, religious and ethnic problems. And those in power should listen more carefully to the voice of scientists who study the emergence of alarming trends and send their alarm signals to society in advance.

The interview was conducted by N. PETROV

Hot October and November 2005 in France. Chronicle and geography of events

October 27th

1. Clichy-sue-Bois. Two young people were electrocuted in a transformer box while running away from police officers.

November 1st

3. Aulnay-sue-Bois. Police clashes with young people.

2. Bondi. 14 cars were burned and 4 people were arrested.

Val-d'Oise, Seine-et-Marne, Hauts-de-Seine and Yvelines. The first clashes between police and rioters.

November 2

1. Clichy-sue-Bois. A policeman was injured and cars were burned.

5. Saint-Saint-Denis. Violence erupts in nine districts.

4. Hauts-de-Seine Riots in the west of Paris.

the 3rd November

3. Aulnay-sue-Bois. A police station has been seized.

November 4th

Dijon, Saint-Saint-Denis, Rouen and Bouches-du-Rhone. About 200 cars were burned.

258 suspected rioters were arrested.

November 5th

Paris region, Bordeaux, Strasbourg, Pau, Rhin, Toulouse, Lille. About 900 cars were burned.

70 suspects were arrested.

November 6

6. Esson. Two schools were burned down.

7. Evreux. Two schools, a post office and a shopping center, and 607 cars were burned.

November 7th

9. Walls. An elderly Frenchman died from his injuries on November 4.

8. Grigny. Two policemen were seriously injured.

Saint-Etienne. A bus was burned down.

Lance. An incendiary bomb was thrown at the church.

Strasbourg. The same bomb was thrown at the school.

839 cars were burned.

186 people were detained.

November 8

To 8 thousand officers involved in restoring order, an additional 1.5 thousand police officers and gendarmes were sent.

143 people were detained.

Night of November 9

12. Toulouse. Molotov cocktails were thrown at the police.

11. Bordeaux. A bus was burned down.

10. Amiens. A curfew has been imposed in the city.

Lyon. The car of a Russian television crew was thrown with stones. The journalists were not injured.

190 cars were burned.

70 people were detained.

In total, during the period of unrest in France, one person was killed and several dozen people were injured, two policemen were seriously injured. About 6 thousand cars were burned.

A state of emergency has been declared in 38 cities and urban areas. During the events and shortly after them, more than 1,9 thousand violators of order were detained. 260 of them have been convicted and are serving their sentences.

Based on the materials of the magazine "Profile"

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